The podcast is back, and this episode sets the tone for the season with a focus on one of the most important (and often overlooked) aspects of cruising: decision-making.
I am joined by John Neal (from Mahina Offshore Services) and Julie and Gio Cappelli (Pelagic Blue Cruising), and this conversation goes beyond the highlight reel of sailing life and into the practical realities of what keeps sailors safe, confident, and out there longer.
We explore:
- How to make good decisions at sea, especially when conditions are uncertain
- Why preparation is never wasted time
- The balance between technology and seamanship
- How modern cruising is changing, from weather patterns to expectations
- What separates short-term adventurers from long-term cruisers
This is an episode for anyone who wants to approach sailing more thoughtfully, whether you’re actively preparing for life aboard or simply thinking about it.
Transcript
Annika: [00:00:00] So much has happened, in the last year and a bit and we have a lot of ground to cover. So, John, let’s start with you.
So you’ve been advising sailors for decades, but you recently made a very, uh, personal change and moved from the US to the Azores, and can you tell what prompted that move and what did it feel like to make that kind of life change at this stage?
John Neal: It’s really hard for me to be settled in just one place because I’ve been moving my entire life. And, Päivi and I got married actually twice, once here in Washington and once in Finland where her family is, and our focus now is after 50 years of really enjoying exploring a lot of the Pacific, um, just is to spend more time in Europe and spend more time exploring countries that I’ve never been to. Päivi’s been a lot more [00:01:00] eastern block countries than I have, and, be closer to both of our families. So her family’s tons and tons of cousins and uncles and aunts in Finland.
And my brother and his nine grandchildren are in France and Switzerland. And so that was part of the impetus and plus the Azores are really exotic, but they’re really convenient. It’s just four and a half hours for Boston to nonstop to the island where our home is. And then it’s just about five hours to Finland from there and less than that to Switzerland.
So it’s just really a great base and I sailed there many times running expeditions out of there on my way across the Atlantic, coming and going both times, both ways. And just fabulous group of nine islands. Super friendly to yachtsmen and yachtswoman and, really lovely people. So the, Azores are semi-autonomous.
They have their own legislative [00:02:00] assembly and their own president. And they welcome, people to settle there. And Päivi being an EU citizen, super easy and there’s just lots to explore and the islands are close to each other, and we already have multiple ex clients and ex students who are planned and given us dates and stopping there this summer.
And so it’s just gonna be really fun and lots of hiking. Fabulous place to kayak. We swim in the ocean every day and it’s just, it’s really good. And that’s a new adventure.
Annika: It sounds like an opening of a wonderful new chapter for new adventures and new connections and it’s an interesting location, kind of in the middle of the ocean there.
Now, Julie and Gio, then you are on the edge of another major departure, kind of both geographically but also professionally, and we’ll dive into all of that as well.
But I’m curious, how does this next chapter feel to you [00:03:00] compared to your previous one?
Gio and Julie: It feels, I mean a little, we’ve got a lot more confidence in the sailing part of it for sure. and then in the, uh, the boat management part of it, we know Sea Fox very well now. We’re gonna be crossing the equator when we get back to Puerto Vallarta. So right now Sea Fox is down in Puerto Vallarta while we’re up here for the Seattle Boat Show teaching and presenting.
It, it feels really, really exciting. It is almost like a new chapter, especially since we haven’t crossed the equator before and we’ve done a whole bunch of work to the boat. It’s exciting.
It’s super different for sure. We definitely bought a great boat and we took off and had a grand adventure with lots of preparation, but also just a hair of naivety that made it so we were like kind of unaware of certain things, which is great, but now it’s almost like we know too much.
So we’re like, oh, we have all, all these extra things. But it, but it works out and it’s great. And it is like very, very interesting how you kind of [00:04:00] get this like shifting baseline effect with cruising and with boat things. So, a shake down to us is like many, many thousands of miles, not just like around the bay or around the sound for a hundred miles or a night or something. We’re looking at like, okay, we need, we need 3000 miles to make sure we like these systems, kind of thing. But it’s good. Yeah. And this is.
Multi-season and it, it’s different planning a cruise than it was even just a few years ago. With the way climate is changing, forecast is changing, connectivity in the cruising community is changing.
It’s, it’s all evolving like very, very quickly these days.
Annika: Oh, it is the number of people that I interview now on their boats with starlink. It has increased a lot.
Julie: Yeah.
I saw number recently that was like 95% of cruisers, but I think it’s probably a little bit lower just in our experience. ’cause you typically don’t hear from the people who prefer to be very [00:05:00] disconnected and there are quite a few out there still who, who don’t participate in that.
Annika: Yes, for sure. Yeah. That seems like a really high number. I can’t imagine it’s that high, but it’s certainly made the interviews a lot easier because people have a really good connection even though they are out there sailing in, in wherever in the world.
Julie: Yeah, it is interesting from a cruiser perspective that we notice that like the, the connectivity other boats has decreased a bit because everybody’s got access to the internet. If we’re in an anchorage, we go to strange places, not many boats go. Um, and we end up with a bunch of other boats that don’t always want that connectivity.
And we forge really great friendships and relationships with those other cruisers. And when we do turn up in places
that are more popular and we see more, more satellite wifi dishes, we tend to not get to hang out with them quite as much.
Annika: Yeah, that’s a good observation too. Yeah. That does change the [00:06:00] dynamic a little bit, doesn’t it? But, you know, it gives some good opportunities for people to keep working while they are sailing, but then, you gotta balance that with the social life.
Now I wanna talk a little about the professional transition that you are kind of going through right now.
So, John, you’ve fully transitioned the sail training expeditions and offshore cruising seminars of Mahina to Julie and Gio, and that’s not something that most people do lightly after decades of doing it. So what made you confident that this was the right move, the right time, and the right people?
John Neal: Well, running expeditions in the most challenging place in the world. Um, the west coast and the islands north of Scotland, was just physically getting to be, um, uh, what’s the right word? Troubling. It was stretching. Päivi encouraged me to, um, to let that [00:07:00] go just very gently, but it was really great encouragement and I’m delighted not to have that hanging, 38 years of running expedition and always wondering and worrying about filling up berths and it’s just really great not to have that.
And then so it’s two things. It’s the seminar business I’ve done, about 201 and two day offshore cruising seminars since 1976. So every year. Average of six or seven seminars in different cities around the world. And I worked seven days a week for, um, pretty much for the last 50 years, 52 years.
And, it’s great to have time to go to yoga and pilates class in the morning and time to go for a longer run or cycle and not to worry about coming back. And I will always, as long as I can enjoy my boat purchase consultation business. I have clients currently in the last, um, couple months, I’ve had at [00:08:00] least one couple or one client a week or a week and every week and a half completing a purchase. And it’s exciting because at the Seattle Boat Show, I have clients from all over North America coming to the seminars that Julie and Gio and I will be presenting, uh, some together, some separately.
And uh, so it’s, it’s always really fun to meet them and in person finally and hear their dreams and and it’s something that’s really exciting is a guy who sailed with us. He is a reseARCh scientist at University of Washington and professor, he sailed with us since our last leg in Scotland.
He ordered and I consulted with him on a new Sirius 35 deck salon, German built sloop It’s nearing completion and he doesn’t have, uh, any boat ownership, prior boat ownership experience. And his experience sailing is pretty much limited to expedition and sailing with some friends. And [00:09:00] so he’s hired us to train him and to help him sail the boat from Neudstadt, Germany to Denmark, Sweden and up to Norway so he can get his tax paper, his boat papers stamped.
So avoid VAT tax on the boat and so train him in the, in the process. So we’re gonna get to sail to several of my favorite places in that area, uh, this summer.
And then go to Finland from Norway and see family. And so it’s gonna be, we’re really looking forward to that. Sirius is a really fabulous builder.
It’s second generation, and I met the owner. He, he had one boat in the Seattle boat show about 10 years ago. And then we just started very occasionally, communicating. And then I’ve had multiple clients order and have his boats built or buy used ones through the factory that they refit. And it’s just a, a really exceptionally high quality design and builder.
And I got him to [00:10:00] bring a boat over for the first time ever to the Annapolis Boat Show this year. It’s super high quality. Every single square centimeter of the boat is utilized and, um. Yeah. So anyway, it’s been really fun and I have builders in several different countries in Europe that I’ve worked with my clients, ordering new boats and trying to choose the options. And so now I’m gonna have time to go to those boatyards. And I love going to boatyards! Every single boatyard you go to, as soon as you walk into the yard, you can tell whether they’re successful in making money or not, just by how people are engaged, how the workers are engaged. And so I’m looking forward to that.
Annika: Yeah. Alright, so you continue doing consultations and all the fun parts that you didn’t have time for before, and Julie and Gio, you are taking on the expedition training element of this. Now I am curious what went through your mind is when [00:11:00] John asked you to do this.
Gio: At first, we initially started just co-presenting with him at the offshore cruising seminar in Anacortes, where we were still students at the time. And then it kind of evolved into a, would you guys think about doing, offshore sail training.
And at that point we had not thought about it. So we took a summer and put together a couple sail training expeditions to kind of dip our toe in the water and feel it out and see if it would be something that we like. And turns out it’s awesome. John’s very right in that it’s challenging.
It’s a lot of work. We recently saw some folks that that we’ve worked with down in Puerto Vallarta, and they’re like, what is the most gratifying part about what you do? And it’s actually when you see people that you’ve helped that you’ve seen, with that dream of I’m gonna go sailing, and then a few years later they, they’ve got their boat, they’ve got their training, they’ve done their refit, they’ve really worked hard for this goal, and you see ’em out at an anchorage and they’re happy and they’re having a time of their life.
It really makes it worth it. [00:12:00] So we’re absolutely beyond honored to be asked to carry on the sail training expeditions. And still kind of in, in disbelief.
Julie: Yeah. I think when, oh. Then we kind of grew into it. Now we’re having a ton of fun and it is pretty wild to, to show up in an anchorage and you see a boat on AIS and and then before you know it, there’s a dinghy that’s coming over, hollering at you. Where Sea Fox is right now down in Mexico. We went to just kind of like scope out the dock before we pulled into the slip and, and almost everyone on the dock had some kind of a connection to either John or us or both.
Annika: And, and the same boat is still being used for the expeditions in the Pacific Northwest, is that correct?
John Neal: Well that was interesting. So the GARCia Exploration 45 that I was using for three years in Alaska and BC. Julie and Gio transitioned to using that boat the very next season after I stopped. And then that boat is now tied up next to them in Mexico. [00:13:00] The owner decided he didn’t wanna charter anymore.
He wanted to use the boat, and so he and his wife and his stepson sailed to Mexico and he’s not coming back.
time.
Gio: And we’re so happy for Greg too. He was charter on this boat. He was putting all this, this time, love and energy into refit and getting it set up just properly.
And even last summer when we were, um, doing sail training on that boat, we’re like, man, I, I really hope that Greg just takes this thing out and uses it one day and he’s actually doing it. So we’re very happy for him, but we’re still using the, the charter model. And we’re just looking at all the different platforms and the students that we have on board and what their goals are and trying to align the best boat that we can with the boatload of students that we have.
Julie: It allows us to be more responsive because now we have so many different boats to choose from. We’ll pick a boat that will match their goals and train them on that boat so they can really get an idea for if that’s something that they like or they don’t like or how it works for them. So it’s allowed us to really customize and personalize the training well.
John Neal: And [00:14:00] every time you’re on a different boat, not only do your clients get a good fit, but that you get to see what the advantages of that boat are.
Annika: Yeah. New boats, different experiences and that increases your knowledge so you can tell someone else who’s maybe looking at buying one of the boats that you’ve sailed on. So that’s, uh, that’s really cool. Very handy.
Now with the sail training expeditions, if I’ve understood the, the idea correctly. So there’s obviously a lot about seamanship and the preparation and self-reliance that’s needed when out there sailing a bit offshore. And John, you’ve kind of developed, your philosophy around that and your training methods and Julie and Gio, you’ve done John’s training that you’re now carrying on in your own work.
I’m curious, what do you think are the, like the core ideas that matter the most in this kind of training, regardless of who is actually doing teaching?
Gio: Well our goal, at least when [00:15:00] we’re doing sail training expeditions is, is to be able to have the members competently and confidently be able to operate whatever boat we’re on by themselves without needing our help by the end of the trip. Seamanship takes on so many different forms. It’s not just known how to use the chart plotter.
And it, it can’t all be covered in just getting on a charter boat for a week. You know, seamanship starts in the boatyard when you have your own boat as far as being really meticulous about your systems and, and your checks and designing things and, and getting the right help. So I don’t know. I don’t have a really good definitive answer. Seamanship is so all encompassing.
What do you think, John?
John Neal: Well, one thing that really came very clearly home this summer was that the most important thing that we can teach is the decision making process and risk mitigation. This last summer we spent more days [00:16:00] in port, not moving than I ever have.
We had, I think twice, three days where we couldn’t move and it, the conditions were so bad that the 120 foot offshore trawlers all came in, tied up and went home. We had some pretty horrendous conditions. I don’t make arbitrary decisions and say, we’re not going anywhere. I involve the entire crew and say, here’s, let’s listen to the weather forecast together.
Let’s talk to the harbor master together. Let’s talk to the owner of the a hundred foot fishing boat that’s next to us. Let’s all go together onto the bridge of the ship and, and ask them why they’re here. And the go, no go decision is super critical and not letting the picture be colored by where we wanna be, but, but just saying, these are the conditions out there just three miles away.
And is that appropriate for [00:17:00] this boat, for any boat? And, and letting the group make that call and having them involved in a, in a. It’s more of a dialogue yeah. Because it’s just so most important skill that we can give our students is what is a prudent decision? When is it prudent to say, hold on, doesn’t matter where we wanna be.
Is this a safe harbor and is it safe out there? And if it’s not having the, tenacity to say we’re not going anywhere until it’s safe out there. I think that’s the most critical skill that we can share.
What do you think, Gio?
Gio: I totally agree. And it goes all to safety. Safety of the crew and the vessel are most paramount in the mind of the captain and whoever’s master of the ship. And that’s what we’re trying to instill on students. And that comes in a whole lot of different forms, whether it’s, you know, putting the boat together or when you’re gonna go out and, and risk mitigation.
John Neal: Looking [00:18:00] at the options and looking at the vessel, because every boat, especially when we’re using charter boats that aren’t our own boats, we need to be really aware of what the limitations of the vessel and the sails and the steering system. All those things are super critical.
Julie: I think a degree of that too is that you don’t always know everything about boat. Even if it’s your boat. There’s something that you haven’t touched in a while or you don’t see that might be compromised, and then you have the, the crew feelings and emotions to manage at the same time.
And oftentimes for crews that are kind of used to working in more of a dictatorship, if you’ve been racing a lot, or often it’s a couple where the husband is the one who wants to go cruising and the wife’s a little more like uncertain about it. Learning how to communicate with each other in a kind and respectful way that’s objective and really looks at the facts of the situation around you and lets you be aware and make a good decision together and be able to talk [00:19:00] about it.
It’s kind of one of those like hidden layers of training that we end up with when we’re tackling this.
And it’s interesting to see the crew go from sort of voicing opinions and perspectives or very quickly jumping to a decision that one person thinks is right. And by the end of the trip, everyone is talking about all the things together and moving forward together as a team, which is really what we’re after.
John Neal: My deal is to use those down times when it’s not safe to be offshore for teaching. And so I have condensed PowerPoints from what I present in the offshore cruising seminar on all subjects. And so we’ll say, okay, well we’re gonna be in port today, so we’re gonna focus on the engine.
Everyone’s gonna get in the engine room. We’re going to, we’ve got a PowerPoint that talks about fuel systems, cooling systems, lubricating systems. We’re gonna go through that and then let’s get off the boat and let’s get away. And so during these storms, we chartered a bus once and went to the [00:20:00] very northern end of Scotland, super remote place where they’ve been building boats in little tiny cove for a thousand years.
And there’s a really, there was a really cool restaurant there. Another time we went down the island of Harris, um, an hour to a historical museum. We did a whole bunch of little fun day trips to get off the boat. And when I’m cruising, if I’m not with students, I like to do the same thing. If there’s a stormy time, don’t just sit all whole hunker down in the boat, go off and explore.
If the boat’s safe, that’s the time to go explore.
Annika: I think I need to embrace that philosophy of going out when it’s, uh, a bit nasty outside here in Scotland and not stay inside in my crazy apartment. But you were talking there about really good topics that are really timeless, like risk management, safety preparation, and communication.
And these are just, they don’t change, you know, probably from the early years of [00:21:00] John teaching this, these are still the same things that are being taught, but. Of course now we do have climate changes, uh, causing different weather phenomenon and, and, uh, more extreme weather. We have new technology for weather patterns or communication.
And there’s YouTube. So people maybe have different expectations. And I’m curious, do you think there’s something that new cruisers might be missing when they are entering this cruising world after having looked at YouTube and the expectation of having all the bells and whistles on the boat and kind of using all the technology that is there available, if you know what I mean?
Gio: I would say the number one thing that they’re missing is actual experience, because you can read all about it and watch all the YouTube videos, but things get real when you’re out on your own in your own vessel and you have to deal with the consequences of your decisions or your lack of decisions that you have made.
I think it, it’s gotten [00:22:00] harder to determine what’s good advice and what’s not. We kind of call it edutainment. Um, there’s some little pieces in there that are great, but I think we see a lot of people who have the expectation that they can take off and they’ll figure everything out as they go.
Make the investment in preparing properly, focusing on the practical stuff, trying to resist the urge to get all of the gadgets and things for your boat, because a lot of the new fancy electronic things we can’t always fix in the field.
So the simpler it is, the easier it is to affect your own repairs or figure something out. But at some point you get to the point where you’re, you’re kind of like your attention is being pulled by different devices and contraptions and this needs a software update and I’ve gotta check this and what’s the wind doing?
I need to look at my sensor. What you have a Windex at the top of the mast.. You have the sea state to look at, you have your sail trim to look at, you have all these other things to pay attention [00:23:00] to and manage and you can’t really learn those behind a screen. You have to be doing that. You have to be hands-on with them and be present for that.
Um, because sometimes it’s a bit uncomfortable and if your default is to turn to a screen for some sort of confidence building information, it can detract from your decision-making capacity relative to the safety of the boat and the crew. So it, it’s really tricky and I think it takes more time and more experience than it has in the past to find the sweet spot for you.
Now that we have all these new, I call them temptations and things that you could add, things that make you feel like you’re prepared, but you might be in a little bit of capacity, but being out there is what will do it. And being able to feel confident that what you have on your boat and when you have in your brain is going to help you have a good time and stay safe.
Annika: It sounds like it’s going back to the basics because we [00:24:00] are in a kind of a world that is in some way less predictable with insurance, changing a lot the costs of cruising and boats. And the weather patterns that we talked about, but then at the same time, it feels a little more reliable because we have all this technology.
So it’s an interesting balance to find there.
Julie: If your cruising is defined by having all these devices be functional that might end your season. But if you’re comfortable like really making the decision that like, is this critical for me, yes or no? If the answer is no, you can keep cruising.
But you potentially don’t have to end your cruise if you keep it a little bit simpler. And really, there’s plenty of other things to be learning. We’re teaching more and more about climate patterns, changes in weather patterns, alternative global cruising routes that you could take if it does turn out to be not ideal climate conditions for the crews that you wanted to do.
Do you need to wait five years or can you go a different way? Is there a better place or a better way that you could plan that? [00:25:00] It’s a completely different kind of education and learning and skill that we haven’t had to really teach before.
Gio: You have to find a happy medium. Like it is imperative that we as sailors have weather and we have really good tools for that these days but if you don’t balance that, if you have to have all the new technology on board. Uh, we’ve seen a lot of times where, where that stuff has been prioritized. There’s fancy electronics, fancy equipment, and the rigging is in terrible shape and not advisable to go anywhere with, and the sails are, are not gonna make it to 3000 miles that you’ve planned to sail.
So there’s always a trade off.
Annika: Yeah, that’s a really good observation. That attention is finite. So you can’t focus on everything. The irony is that most people go into sailing because they want to go for the simpler life.
Right. Then they burden themselves with all these gadgets and, uh, which I’m sure some of them are useful. Absolutely. But, you know, it’s, it’s a funny thing to think of. Oh, I went a simple life with the fully [00:26:00] kitted out boat that’s gonna drive me crazy fixing it all.
Gio: You nailed it.
John Neal: Well I think Annika, the thing that people forget is that the more complex the equipment in many ways, the less reliable it’s, and if you have something, a piece of gear and it’s not working, it really bugs you or it bugs most people. And I am seeing kind of two different paths.
I’m seeing the fast track people who have been watching YouTube for a long time. They want to buy a boat and take off within very short timeframe and with very little focus on gaining skills. And they usually don’t last very long. And then we see the people who, this is a real life goal and real, important for them, and they do the training, which the insurance underwriter loves. They go to Safety at Sea Seminar. They take a sail repair, rigging repair course. They do a marine weather course, diesel engine course, electrical course, and prepare it. [00:27:00] Maybe spend a year or two preparing, gaining knowledge, gaining self-sufficiency.
The whole thing that people forget is that there are fewer and fewer technicians available worldwide to help you repair the boat. And there’s just the shortage of them. They’ve retired and gone cruising on their own boats. But the people who have taken the courses and got the training, gotten the proper tools so they can maintain and not gone crazy on super complex systems that can’t be maintained in a remote cruising environment they’re the ones who end up cruising longer and having, I think a more stress-free, relax, it becomes more of a lifestyle and less of an event.
So the ARC’s a great example. The ARC that just completed, which was the, I think the 35th or the 40th, something like that. It was amazing how many people had new boats built just to do the ARC, and then they sold them. Bering, the yacht broker has the booth at the beginning [00:28:00] of the ARC in Grand Canaria, and one at the end. And so they don’t even sail the, they don’t even make the Atlantic Circle. So there’s just different people go cruising for all kinds of different reasons.
And it’s, it’s okay. It’s great that they got that experience and maybe shared it with their family, but the ones who really are gonna be long-term are the ones who put in the effort to train themselves.
Julie, John, Gio: And, and I would say that, that whatever time you’re investing, whether it’s a weekend course or, or a couple year college course, it’s still gonna be a wash in the end.
Because if you’re going out as a new sailor unprepared, you’re gonna lose a couple months because of some repair that you didn’t even know you had to do or didn’t know was coming, seen it time and again if you had the, the education and preparation on the front end, you wouldn’t have lost that during cruising time.
You would’ve invested it, before getting on your boat. And cruising looks different for everybody for sure, but I would say with everything, it’s a wash.
One of the best advice I ever got from a technician down in San [00:29:00] Diego. He said, every boat costs the same amount of money. You’re just gonna pay it on the front end or you’re gonna pay it on the back.
Annika: Gio I love that way you said that every boat cost the same. You just paid upfront or later. That’s, that’s really well said. But you were talking about the importance of like proper and thorough preparation, and that reminded me of one example, which I think is the best case that I know, is that I interviewed a couple for a podcast and they had bought a fixer upper that they were fixing up. Like there’s very low cost. And they had quit before I got the episode out. so, so they, they did not make it very far. They’d been at it for, I think, uh, from memory, like six months fixing it up. And it was, they were just burnt out.
So it does happen. But, but this was very much a kind of a quick, we’ve seen this on YouTube, let’s do, let’s buy an old boat and fix it up and go. And then the reality hit, I guess after a few months when he can’t can’t be out there hitting the Caribbean or somewhere else.
So, yeah, preparation, that’s what I tell myself. ’cause my [00:30:00] plans keep delaying that, uh, you know, preparation is not wasted time.
Julie, John, Gio: Not at all. An investment. Totally. An investment in your success and enjoyment once you pick the right boat.
Annika: Absolutely. Now. Julie and Gio, you are about to embark on uh, a grand old adventure, and I think you’ll be departing just as this episode is coming out and you are tracing John’s trip from 40 years ago, talk to me about this. This sounds
Julie, John, Gio: it’s true. That’s true. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because gonna go to Galapagos, Easter Island Pit, Caren, ga, and then Marquesas. And that I, I’ve done that exact trip just once actually, but it’s some of the most isolated and absolutely phenomenal places in the world. And so I’m really excited to hear back we’re, we are starting to go over charts and I was telling them last night, you need to, you [00:31:00] need to see this guy in at, in the Marquesas because he owns a bay on the other side of the island that’s really gorgeous and
Julie: We were still trying to decide like where we wanted to go for our next big cruise and we had like plan A through K, like, gosh, we gotta pick a plan a one of these days.
We’re like, you know what? This is gonna be exactly 40 years ago. And you had just announced these big transitions. And we were like, wouldn’t that be cool if we retrace John’s cruise for the 40th anniversary minus the part about sailing in the hurricane. Right. Splitting up the first year so we don’t end up in hurricane season.
And then everything just started like falling into place really. We’re like, it’s the right decision. It feels really cool.
John Neal: Well, in terms of the wind patterns the good news is the latest NOAA update, El Nino update is that we’re going to be in a La Nina El Nino neutral pattern for the next year, which is absolutely brilliant for anybody leaving [00:32:00] Mexico or Panama and heading west through the South Pacific.
It’s fabulous. And it’s also really good news for cruising in the Caribbean and Atlantic because I’m sure you know that during a strong El Nino season where we have reduced trade winds in the Pacific, much higher incidents earlier and later and stronger tropical cyclones. Well, the, um, counterpoint of that is that the Caribbean and the Atlantic have much lower, much reduced, and so this is neutral.
So the next year should see normal hurricane patterns in the Atlantic and in the Pacific. So their timing is exquisite.
You talked about changing weather patterns and Jimmy Cornell, whom you had earlier on a podcast had every year writes another article for Cruising World pointing out the current changes to worldwide weather patterns in the last 12 months.
And, it’s become such a strong factor that I advise people if they’re in [00:33:00] cruising Mexico or Caribbean, and there’s a forecast for a strong El Nino period in the Pacific. Don’t go. Stay in the Caribbean, in the Atlantic where it’s much reduced for another season, maybe two seasons, but hopefully just one season.
Because you don’t want that. Risk mitigation means that you don’t go into an enhanced hurricane season year.
Julie: I think it even impacts the purchase process too, because I think even just a few years ago, we’d hear people say, I’m gonna buy it here and get it here in the same season or whatever.
And sometimes it’s kind of a dicey prospect.
John Neal: The Baltic and inner Europe cruising Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, west coast of Ireland, west coast of Scotland, Norway, Sweden, that’s a fabulous cruising area, and it’s less impacted by weather changes than tropical areas are.
Everybody’s in a rush to get to the Med or to get to hot [00:34:00] weather, but sometimes there’s really brilliant cruising without going to those places that year.
Julie: Totally. And then cruisers who have, like, I’m doing my circum navigation in two to three years and we’re kind of like, well, let’s maybe rethink that.
You’re not a failure if you don’t complete the circum navigation, first of all, like that was your initial goal. But goals change. Sometimes you find a place that you don’t wanna leave on that schedule, so you stay, which is great. And then also being able to adapt to the changes.
John Neal: And if you’re pushing the edge in terms of the weather safety.
Gio: That goes back to our, our seamanship core values. And that, you know, that’s, that’s the number way to get in trouble is stick to a schedule.
Annika: Exactly. Exactly. And that’s sort of one of the reasons why we didn’t buy a boat that we very nearly bought last year, is that we were really considering this lovely boat that you all helped us review, uh, beautiful Wauquiez 40 [00:35:00] and it wasn’t a perfect boat, but pretty close. But then what we were thinking is that with our current lifestyle, that requires us to be in port a lot because we travel a lot for work, so we need to be with an airport access. And then, okay, then we have a, an older dog who needs to get all land every few hours is like, okay, this is starting to sound a lot like sailing to a schedule and living in a marina and, you know, that’s not the sailing adventure we have in mind.
And it was a kind of, it was a hard decision to kind of let that go and it’s like, I think we need to wait and just give it time so that we can have the sailing adventure we want and not start resenting living on a boat in a marina ’cause that’s not what we wanted.
Julie, John, Gio: I’m so proud of you for that.
John Neal: Well, and the other thing is that you’re saving up money. You and Adam are saving money every year, and so you’re going to have better options. You’ll be able to afford better options. And maybe cruise longer.
Annika: Exactly. So that’s sort of the, uh, the plan on my end then is [00:36:00] just to keep preparing, as the best I can here now in the UK. Uh, as we know from John, there’s amazing sailing in Scotland, so have to check some of that out and, and any other way we can prepare, while we’re just getting ready. And like you said, just increasing our budget at the same time.
So, you know, the plan is still there, it’s just not now.
Julie: Yeah, but that, but you have all the, all the factors on your side. Have time, you have finances, you have your health and your energy. Without those four things, if any one of those is missing, the, the, the adventure changes considerably or goes off the table completely. So you’ve got all the four of those things in your favor right now, plus awesome decision making framework that you just shared. And that’s, that’s perfect.
Annika: Yeah, like I said, it wasn’t easy, but then we thought like, well, let’s move to Scotland ’cause we want something new in life. So we left France and moved to Scotland for more, for cultural [00:37:00] reasons and to be in an anglophone country and, in a little bit of a bigger city again.
So, you know, had to come up with something new. But, uh, yeah, the sailing plan is definitely still there.
Julie, John, Gio: Great compromise. yeah. Yeah. Bravo.
Annika: So that’s what’s going on our end here. So there’s been a lot of changes for kind of all of us which is interesting.
Now if we start to wrap up and I always like to ask, you know, if someone else who is sort of listening and is feeling in the, in-between right now, so not quite ready, maybe not quite sure about whether to do it or when to do it, what would you tell them? What would you want them to know?
John Neal: Keep preparing and be patient. Keep gaining skills and knowledge. Keep studying.
Gio: I think, and then this is not because we run sail training expeditions, but I think a great answer is to get on a liveaboard sailing expedition of some sort. It doesn’t have to be [00:38:00] with us, it doesn’t have to be in America, wherever it’s convenient and works for you, but, but to get on boats and use them and get professional training from people who do it.
’cause the more exposure you have, the, the more tools you have in your toolbox to make the best decision. That’s for you. But I, I will definitely echo John’s patience. ’cause even if it’s just a boat that you’re waiting for. No boat is perfect.
No boat’s ever gonna be done. But you’ll get the right boat that’s right for you and your circumstances in your plans if you have the patience, to wait and and create that framework that your perfect boat fits into, it’ll show up.
Julie: And it just gives you more time to be ready for that boat too.
For sure. I mean for us, like we had already had this idea. We were shopping for boats, we were reading all the books, we, there was a little bit of YouTube out when we started. We were kind of like picking and choosing channels that we thought might be kind of what we were looking for and then picking up the bits and pieces that we could.
But really, John, it was sailing with you all those years ago that like solidified it for us. That was like, we thought we wanted to do [00:39:00] this. We didn’t really know how to work together in this capacity because we were both captains for work before. So a little bit of headbutting. We didn’t really know how to navigate that.
And it was pretty obvious that it was going to be more challenging for us without some extra help and training. And it was, it was sailing with you actually at the Pacific request that solidified that. Like, this is absolutely what we wanna do. We have some great experience on a crew now and on a boat.
We know so much more about what we thought we wanted and actually do want, or what we thought we wanted and now we don’t want.
Gio: Just the experience opened up a whole lot of other doors for us that were not previously open, just the exposure. Right. We were with John and we cruised with other people and saw other people’s dreams and wants and desires.
Made some connections with people that were like-minded and then we would never have been exposed to Skagit Valley Colleges Marine technical program without John having taken us there and been like, Hey, this is a thing. And it’d be a good [00:40:00] progression.
Julie: I think sometimes we have to recognize that for a door to open, a door has to close, and when it’s you and your partner or whoever it is that you’re planning this cruising adventure with, sometimes it’s hard to see.
But when you’re in a community like this, in a small, close knit group that gets to know each other really quickly, sometimes they can see that door before you can.
And it, it feels like it’s a step back or like you’re kind of behind the pack, but then suddenly everything’s clear and things start falling into place and you’re right on track or ahead of where you thought you were.
And it feels easier. We often like to say that if something feels too hard, or a process feels too hard, there’s probably a better way to do it. We just haven’t figured it out yet.
Annika: Exactly a little outside perspective to help you work through whatever you’re working through. That’s a really good tip as well. But is there anything else you’d like to cover? It’s been so wonderful to catch up with you all and we will catch up more [00:41:00] separately later on as well.
Julie, John, Gio: Your questions are just so insightful and I, I really feel like you’re, you’re so focused on helping everyone be successful at reaching their goals, which, which aligns very properly with how we feel about everything. Like getting people to succeed at the thing that they’re most excited about is so huge, and I think we all just really appreciate that you’re on that team too, helping people get to where they wanna be.
We hear about it all the time from our clients and our students who are just like, have you heard this podcast? Have you heard this podcast? It’s always your podcast that is helping people make good decisions and have a great time out. Hats off.
Annika: No, that’s awesome.