What makes a great offshore cruising boat? How do you navigate today’s boat market to find the right vessel for your needs? And what skills should you develop before taking off on a long-term sailing adventure?
In this episode, I sit down with John Neal, founder of Mahina Offshore Services, who has spent nearly five decades helping sailors prepare for life at sea. John shares insights into the current boat market, the best places to buy and refit a boat, and key considerations for long-term cruising. We also dive into the challenges of marine insurance, the changing weather patterns affecting cruising routes, and why proper preparation is more important than ever.
In this episode, we discuss:
✔️ What makes a good offshore cruising boat
✔️ The best regions to buy and refit a boat right now
✔️ How climate change is reshaping cruising routes and what it means for sailors
✔️ The importance of gaining hands-on sailing experience before committing to a boat
✔️ Key trends in marine insurance and how to navigate the challenges
If you’re preparing to buy a boat, planning a major refit, or simply curious about the state of the cruising world, this episode is packed with expert knowledge that can save you time, money, and frustration.
Transcript
So John, you have just returned from leading sail training expeditions in New Zealand. Where in New Zealand did you sail and was there anything that stood out to you this season?
John Neal: this season? Well, Annika, I sailed out of the Bay of Islands, the subtropical northernmost port of entry for New Zealand, where all the 800 or 850 cruising boats are arriving in a one month period from around the world, and sailed out to some offshore islands twice, to the Great Barrier Island, and clocked up about 700 miles, just sailing offshore and back and coast wise, during two 10 day sail training expeditions. And this was the, I, I was just thinking back, the very first place I ever did sail training expeditions was in New Zealand. And that was about 40 or 42 years ago. And it was out of the exact same port of Opua. There’s been a gorgeous huge new, Opua marina built since then that just keeps expanding and doing a better and better job every year. So it was great to be back there. Unlike last year when we had a tropical cyclone with a hundred knot winds and one boat lost just offshore. This year we had delightful sailing weather and of the 700 miles, every bit of it was broad reaching. Whether we were going north, south, east or west. But the change was last year we had an El Nino weather phenomena occurring and this year we were in a moderate La Nina syndrome. For and the difference is just night and day, and it’s the takeaway for that to cruisers is in El Nino years, the Caribbean is where you want to be, not the Pacific, because of the increased water temperatures, meaning far more tropical squalls earlier and more severe tropical cyclones. And so we just got lucky this year.
It was fascinating meeting my harbormaster friends in the different ports and just asking them for trends with cruising boats. And then at the end of the trip, we flew up to Rarotonga in the Cook Islands, which is a place that’s very dear to my heart. It’s where my, the home port of Mahina Tiare has been for the last 15 years and actually still is. And I talked to my harbormaster friend there, whom I’ve known since he was a child on Penrhyn Island, about the developments that they’ve had, and the Cook Islands are expanding. They’ve dredged the channel into Aitutaki from about 5 feet to 16 feet to make it easier for cruisers to get in. They’re building more facilities.
They’re putting down moorings and welcoming cruisers. And it is a legal port of entry, so you can clear customs there. That was interesting. New Zealand, harbourmasters told us that in general, it looks like we’re back to pre pandemic numbers. So that’s the first time since 2019 we’ve had, uh, the same number of cruisers coming.
Very exciting was meeting an old friend who’s the harbourmaster of Whangarei. Her name is Sharon. She’s a It was originally sailed to New Zealand from Sweden many years ago, and she told me about a new association of South Pacific countries, tourism offices, and marinas, incorporating all the marinas from Panama to Australia. And she’s a member of that, and she was just talking about what they’re doing, trying to work together to get the word out that the South Pacific is prepared and welcoming cruisers. And this is the first area in the world that I’ve ever heard of that is making a concerted joint effort to improve their services.
So that’s really exciting.
Annika: Yeah, that sounds really interesting. There’s a lot to unpack here but just about the association there that’s a large area but it’s great to hear that they are open for business now officially after COVID and the numbers are returning and that’s really good for the local communities as well.
John Neal: as well. It’s super good for the local communities because tourism has not regained its stature in the Pacific at all. And New Zealand was a huge case in point. They are in the midst of a very, I wouldn’t say severe, but a very serious recession right across the country. And I’m told that the same is the fact in the other Pacific islands. Tourism is really what a lot of the small countries in the Pacific and Caribbean depend on. And it has not bounced back yet.
So they, yeah, it’s great that the welcome mat is out and it’s great to see the different national tourism boards of the Pacific getting together and saying, we want to do boat shows in North America and Europe to tell people that we are open and that we welcome cruisers. And so they were asking me, what would be the best boat show for us to do? Should we count on Europe or is there somewhere in North America? And I said, Hey guys. Annapolis Boat Show draws so many Europeans, really people from all over the world. It is, it is the largest sail only show in the world. And they are thinking about coming and having a booth there and having nationals from the different island countries in the booth to talk to cruisers and answer questions.
And so this is a huge turnaround to have the governments actively promoting cruising in the region.
Annika: Yeah, that’s really great. And I really like that because they are clearly focusing on small tourism instead of mass tourism, because they could easily go that route as well. So this sounds like maybe they’re thinking with a little bit of a responsible travel, sustainability hat on as well.
John Neal: As well.
Hugely.
Annika: Now, you mentioned weather, and how La Nina made the weather in New Zealand a little more usual and very pleasant for you with, broad reach sailing, this year. We’ve heard in the news a lot of hurricanes this season in the Caribbean and with all sorts of extreme weather events are becoming so common whether it’s La Nina or or not just generally climate change. And i’m wondering how are the worldwide changes in weather patterns impacting cruisers And how should sailors adapt?
John Neal: Well, in one word, Annika, hugely. That’s the answer. Jimmy Cornell has, uh, I’ve taught with him and, and we’ve worked together for many decades. And in the June 27th, 2024 issue of Cruising World, he has the most important article on how weather changes are affecting cruisers. And if you just Google jimmy Cornell, Cruising World, June 27, weather article. The title of the article is Route Planning in the Face of Climate Change. He really nails it. He’s the author of World Cruising Routes, which is the seminal book, now in its ninth edition, of where you can go safely during what months of the year. Well, Jimmy and his son Ivan, who lives in London, published the second edition of Cornell’s Ocean Atlas, which are all the weather pilot charts for the entire world in one bound volume for a hundred bucks. It’s hugely important for avoiding bad weather. Well, Jimmy has been monitoring the weather since he started the ARC, the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers, 40 years ago. And the World ARC, which is now, I think, in its 25th edition or something like that. Uh, he’s just, he’s an amazing guy. He was at the Annapolis show last year. Last night he sent me an email and said he is now planning and promoting and getting sign ups for, I forgot what it’s called, but he’s organizing a rally that involves a circumnavigation of the Americas. Going through the Northwest Passage, going to the Antarctic Peninsula. Jimmy is 84 years old!
And this guy is like the, he’s the Energizer Bunny. He never stops. He’s not going on this. I don’t, I hope not. Not on his boat anyway. But, anyway, he is just the, he has so much knowledge because he’s been watching weather. He’s been hiring forecasters to produce weather for the ARC rallies and the World ARC and he’s just, he’s just really in it, deeper than anyone in the world that I know. And so this article in the June 27 issue of Cruising World really nails it. So the small snapshot of his takeaway is that tropical storm seasons are getting longer. The tropical storms are getting more severe. In fact, National Weather Service is going to add two more categories. You know, there’s categories 1-4 They’re going to add categories 5 and 6. I think that’s what it is. And the another really interesting point that I found in that article was trade winds are getting lighter and less regular. And I’m sure you’ve probably, living in France, I’m sure you’ve probably read the articles that says the Gulf Stream is once again slowing down. You probably know that 200 years ago the Gulf Stream stopped and Europe had a mini ice age. So there’s just a whole lot of things in weather that really affect the safety of cruisers worldwide.
And for that reason, having books like World cruising routes and taking weather courses becomes just incredibly important. A weather course that I have been involved in promoting is Lisa Batchelor Fraley. She also teaches at Annapolis. Kinetic Sailing is the company that she and her husband Andy started. She’s a, ex U. S. Navy meteorologist, oceanographer, naval aviator, a graduate of the Naval War College. And a Cruiser and she’s written half of the ASA training manuals. so they’re just, they are phenomenal, Lisa and Andy are phenomenal, but she does twice a year, online four day, two weekend marine weather courses that from everyone I’ve sent to her, they say they’re the most fantastic courses because she has this huge, background of weather from a naval standpoint and from a cruiser standpoint. And so it’s like, she’s more qualified to teach than anybody in the world.
So taking a marine weather course, even if it’s just doing one that’s online on ASA. And so ASA has an amazing selection of courses that you can sign up for online. They’re permanently there. And I’ve taught five of those and she’s got a online weather course that you can download from ASA that’s really good. It’s not the four day one, but it’s definitely a start.
So, knowing about marine weather, hiring an excellent quality forecaster, a private weather forecaster like commandersweather. com. So that if you have times where the weather isn’t making sense, which does happen, you can email or call, email’s best, a professional forecaster and get an analysis of what you should do. Those two things, having the basic knowledge and then having access to easily updatable, focused weather. That’s going to increase the safety and help make up for this, the change, toward more volatility.
Annika: Yeah, perfect. Thank you for sharing that. And you can send me the link and I can include it on the website as well. So people can access that. And it’s good to know that you have some tips on how to tackle this. So we don’t all have to go sail in Scandinavia, which is fairly safe from hurricanes and tropical storms.
So, education is the key.
John Neal: this Yeah. And you brought up an interesting point, Annika. As the weather gets more volatile, and especially in the Med, as the Med gets hotter and hotter every summer, I was sailing there last summer and this summer as well, we’re seeing more people heading to the Baltic regions and places that don’t have the severe weather impacts.
Scotland is, Still very, very underused for cruising, but a few more boats in the Baltic area. And there’s lots of really cool areas. I always tell people if you want to go where it’s crowded, go where it’s warm. If you, if you’re okay with temperate climates, there’s nobody there because they all left to go where it’s warm.
And so,, yes, cruising Europe, is awesome. The distances are small, there’s lots of good options.
Annika: Let’s talk about the boat market because that too has seen some dramatic shifts in recent years.
And given your close work with boat brokers and your deep industry insights, I would love to hear about the the trends you are seeing right now. Where are the best places to purchase or refit a cruising boat these days?
Are there even some regions where the market currently favors the buyer?
John Neal: There are, and that’s just about to change. And so what I’ve seen, I’ve been tracking this for 49 years. What I’ve seen is that during periods of instability and volatility in society, that’s when boat prices and more importantly, that’s where demand goes through the roof.
And so after the 2016 election, after COVID started, both of those incidents sent the boat prices up. Easily by 20 percent and made the the demand outpace the availability. I’m afraid that we’re just about at the start of that ramping up again. Because of political situations in France, in Europe, definitely in North America, even in New Zealand, uh, political changes have made people a little bit anxious. And when people get anxious, they want to go cruising, and that’s definitely, we’re definitely seeing that in North America. But in terms of good places to buy, I was just amazed. I mentioned earlier that New Zealand has not recovered from COVID at all. As you recall, they had a very severe lockdown.
They completely closed the country. It was great. They had much lower COVID deaths than almost anywhere in the world. But the result of that is the economy took a huge hit. The progressive prime minister got booted out. There’s now, a much more conservative government. They’re cutting programs.
It’s just So normally young European cruisers arrive in New Zealand and Australia. They have They’ve used up all their money or their time away from their job and they need to sell the boat as fast as possible, ideally within a month or two weeks, even better, and head back to Europe. This year, there’s no market for those boats. And so I interviewed a very delightful young German couple, both of whom worked for the German government in intelligence. They had a young baby along the way during their, uh, I think two year cruise. So they had like an 18 month old. Old, very active daughter on board, and they had to get back to Europe. They were selling a, uh, a Grampian 37, a Canadian designed, English built, very solid cruising boat, older, not fancy, but it had new everything. New Yanmar, new standing rigging, new water maker, new hydrovane. Somebody had put, the previous owner and them had put easily 50, 000. They were asking 49, 900 Kiwi, which is 30, 000 USD for this boat that’s all ready to go back to Fiji. Well, buying a boat in New Zealand has pluses and minuses. The minuses are it’s not super easy to get back to some of the best cruising ground in the world, French Polynesia. The plus is, It is super easy and only an 8 to 9 day sail to get up to what I think are absolutely the best cruising islands in the world, Fiji, Tonga, New Caledonia, Vanuatu, and Australia.
Also New Zealand is the second best place in the world to refit a cruising boat after the west coast of Sweden. There are more refit yards in the North Island of New Zealand than there are probably in the rest of the world put together. Because the New Zealand government recognized 50 years ago how important boat building was to their economy. And they started apprenticeship programs in boat building, sail making, marine electrical systems, and they’ve kept these programs going, and so now boat builders from Florida come and do hiring fairs in New Zealand to try and lure them to Florida because they know the workers are trained, unlike in Florida where a lot of them are just seat of the pants learned.
Well, anyway, New Zealand is an awesome place to refit. The New Zealand dollar it’s about 60 cents to the U. S. dollar, so it’s way, way cheaper, plus the hourly rates are less, and so it works out to be at least half the price of refitting a boat in North America for higher quality and, uh, better availability. So it’s an excellent place. And so I saw a bunch of boats. I talked to the harbor master about this as well. She said she’d never seen anything quite like it. Saw a bunch of boats, really good quality, not necessarily fancy boats, but in the price range between, 30, 000 and 60, 000 U. S. All offshore ready, where people had spent that much money just on outfitting the boat.
So basically you’re getting a boat just for the cost of the offshore gear. So that was pretty phenomenal.
Other places probably the most expensive place is North America because the economy is the strongest in the world. The northwest coast of Sweden still remains a total bargain because the boats are stored indoors nine to eleven months a year in heated sheds, most of them, and frequently they’re refit on a regular basis. And there are refit yards that do phenomenally good work. And the Swedish kronor is not strong against the U. S. dollar. It’s It’s about 40 percent less than when I ordered and paid for Mahina Tiare 3 from Halberg Rassy in 1996, I think it was. So it’s a good time.
South coast of England,, is another really strong area, excellent refit services, but the inventory is thin right now. Balearics, Palma strong area boats are a little more aged there. Uh, Malta is a good spot. There’s a good, good boat yard there, and there’s a quite a few boats there. And that’s just a really central place for all of the Med. Panama is not boats good deals come up in Panama, but Panama’s a difficult place to do refit. Um. Caribbean and Florida. Boatyards are pretty busy there, pretty overwhelmed in a lot of instances. The northwest of the U. S., uh, Sidney, British Columbia in particular. Sidney, B. C., because the Canadian dollar is, uh, down so badly against the U. S. dollar. And because of the skill level.
There’s always been a hot spot of boat building activity, and Sydney is at the south end of Vancouver Island, just, uh, 15 kilometers north of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. Sydney is a hot place to do refits. I just checked over there, went over there last Christmas, and talked with some of the top boatyards. I’ve sent a ton of people there to get refits, and they can do a brilliant job for 30 plus percent less than in the Northwest. But on the other hand, Anacortes, uh, halfway between Seattle and Vancouver, has a huge number of boat yards. They do commercial boat building, ship building as well. And what’s super important is they have a very, very strong, um, marine training program in a technical college that has been supported hugely by Washington State Governor by the legislature, the program is called Skagit Valley College Marine Tech Center. It’s, I think, and it’s, it’s been going, I think, more than 30 years now, and they train, uh, ABYC certified diesel and marine electrical and electronic people, and that’s just brilliant.
I know that you just recently interviewed, uh, Julie and Gio from Pelagic Blue Cruising, and they are both graduates of that program and they can tell you how incredible it is to get nine months of intensive training up to a professional level,, for a very reasonable cost. And it doesn’t really make sense if, if you’re just going to do, um, a one year cruise. And that’s it. But if you’re really interested in cruising as a lifestyle and as a long time adventure, it makes a huge amount of sense to get the training. What I’m seeing is that the marine techs, the really good diesel, electrical people around the world, they’re all retiring. They’re all my age. And so There isn’t the infrastructure in most countries and most locations to train up new ones.
And the boatyards hire people, who have never been on a boat before. And they say, well, we’ll train you as we have time. And they never have time. And so you end up paying 150 an hour or 150 euros an hour for someone who knows less than you. And Gio and Julie end up having to redo their work. And they can really Explain why it makes sense to find trained people.
That was kind of a long winded answer to your question. Sorry about that.
Annika: No, long winded answers are great. And from what I gathered is when you’re choosing where to start your cruising, you know, don’t be afraid to look outside your home harbor. Think about currency as well because that makes a big difference like you mentioned in New Zealand but also Canada, Canadian dollars doing terribly right now. You know the pound is strong. So there’s a lot to keep tabs on and then you also mentioned the availability of services so if refit you kind of have to plan to do it somewhere where the services are available and not too, too expensive either.
So it’s, it’s much more than just choosing like, Oh, where would I like to cruise? Hmm.
John Neal: Need to factor in there is upwind versus downwind. And the huge advantage of purchasing in the Baltic countries is because all the best cruising in the world from there to Australia is all downwind. I recently had some clients purchase a brand new Sea Wind catamaran take delivery in Vietnam. Well, that’s downwind of everywhere you want to go in the world. And so they have had some real rough upwind cruising as a result. So buy upwind, cruise downwind, and, uh, and you’re right. It’s just as important what services are available where you purchase as the price of the boat is.
We’ll take a short break here, but when we come back, we’ll talk about where the boat market is heading and what boat buyers and sellers should be prepared for.
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Annika: Now, if you look into your crystal ball, where is the boat market heading? What should we be prepared for?
John Neal: For? I think unfortunately, after you mentioned it becoming a bit of a buyer’s market, in some places, I think that we’re probably going to see that change. You know, it’s always cyclical. The pendulum swings back and forth.
It swung way, way out of whack during COVID and people were just desperate to get a boat and to get out of dodge, just to get out in the ocean. And so they paid frequently 20 plus percent more than what the boats had been going for 18 months earlier. And sadly, the pendulum swung back after COVID went away. And then now there are some boats for sale where people are underwater on the boats because they spent more money on purchasing and refitting. And, uh, they can’t get out what they put in, but that can be a real bonus for the buyer. And there, there are good values. So the current market is interesting. In some ways this hasn’t changed, but the market for clean, ready to go, no problem offshore capable boats is stronger than ever. Remember, those boats are still selling for at or above asking price, I had a really interesting Swedish couple from Gothenburg that were friends of friends. They finished a nine year cruise.
Well, they didn’t finish it. Their parents were both, all four parents were in their 90s and needed help. And so they had just sailed to Alaska, and they met a Swedish friend of mine in Alaska who sent them to me, and they said, these guys need to sell their boat. It’s immaculate. You need to see it. And so I saw it, and they were both Swedish engineers, and, um, The boat, they had just prepped it to sail to Australia. So they had all the spare parts, all the food, they had new sails, new electronics, and uh, they were about as obsessive with maintenance and taking care of the boat as I am. And the boat was it was a Chuck Payne design, English built. I’ll, I’ll think of the name in a minute.
But anyway, it was the, it was the European top, top quality boat. It sold instantly. Even before the listing hit Yachting World, I got them to Swiftshore Yachts in Seattle who specializes in offshore boats and they had someone fly from Newport, Rhode Island and put a full price offer and the boat went instantly.
And so that’s the same kind of thing. But I just saw a boat, I was just in Seattle for a Christmas party and I saw a, A boat, a Swisher that I would’ve never recommended before, and it’s a Beneteau 4 6 1. So it’s the model that precedes the Beneteau 423, 473. So it’s the predecessor of the 473. 1999 Benetau 461. Owned by, originally ordered by a Microsoft engineer, and now owned by an airline captain. It’s going to be listed for around 150, 000. The boat has been babied, it has been updated continuously, it looks like a brand new boat. And wow, for 150, 000, and it’s solid, I talked to people who’d sailed on it, and they said this is at least as good, if not stronger, than the 3 series of Beneteau, the 473, 423. For 150, 000, it doesn’t have a watermaker, it does have solar, it does have a dinghy, it’s got upgraded sails and SSB. So there are still super deals out there where you don’t have to spend 200, 000 to get a boat that would be comfortable for a family. And never a charter, never been a charter boat. So that was real exciting to see. Um, and I’m sure that will go really quickly. I can already think of a couple of my consultation clients that would be a perfect fit for that.
Annika: Yeah, what a dream to buy a boat from two engineers!
John Neal: Captain. Electrical engineer and airline captain. It’s like, doesn’t get any better. Well, they could be German or Swedish instead of American. But no, the boat was great. It’s always a joy to see a boat like that, that, that someone has truly loved and has used and it just hasn’t sat there in the marina covered with mold and barnacles. So
Annika: yeah, yeah, for sure. There’s actually a lot of boats like that here in France, in the marinas. Because, of course, the land of Beneteau, and it just looks like nobody’s looked at them in years. And they’re nice boats, not old, crappy ones, like nice Beneteau’s, and I’d be like, yeah, I’d buy that if it wasn’t, you know, such a know, such a terrible shape.
John Neal: Well, I was thinking of you and Adam, because that’s a bigger boat, I think, than you probably want, and ideally, it’s a bigger boat than I’d like to recommend for couples. I think the ideal is somewhere around 40, between 40 and 42, and so I went online and tried to see if that was part of a series, like You know, the three series, they did the 393, the 423, the 473, and I think there was a 523 as well. But there’s no, there’s no younger sister. There’s no smaller sister to it.
It was just the only one. Another boat that was interesting that the Elan 434 that we normally use in New Zealand had been sold. And so, we used the owner of the charter company’s own boat, which was the Beneteau 40.5 from like 1995 or 94 or something like that. So even an earlier series and it was amazingly sturdy. We had it in some good blows. It had excellent performance and I talked to the owner about it and he also owns the Beneteau, 393. And he said this boat, he and his wife had taken up to Fiji and Tonga at least once if not twice. And he said it did fine offshore. And he said the 393 he would not take up to Tonga. He would not recommend it. And so it’s just interesting how some of the earlier large number of production runs were actually of higher quality than current boats. So I found that interesting. I was really surprised. And I said, Well, what about the keel structure? And he said, Oh, well, this boat has had two major keel problems where it’s always been a charter boat its entire life since 1995 And he said someone ran it aground really hard and they had to do like a 50, 000 redo.
And then he said someone else during his period of ownership ran it aground and he spent one winter grinding out after the keel. He said you have to be really careful with these boats that were never, that have cast iron keels and were never designed to be run aground. He said if you see any little stress cracks at all, it usually is indicative of a serious problem.
And so he spent a lot of one winter floorboards completely removed, grinding and fiberglassing after the keel, where the keel had been compressed back and up when it ran aground. And so that’s the only downside. So, why would you spend twice as much to get a high quality European boat like a Contest or an Oyster or a Rustler or a Malo or a Najad or a Hallberg Rassy instead of a Beneteau?
Well, the reason you would was, would be because those boats can survive a grounding without a $50, 000 rebuild the whole keel structure issue. But not everybody has that kind of money. And so what I tell people is you can go cruising on a Beneteau. You cannot afford to run aground on a Beneteau. So you just have to take close in navigation very, very seriously.
Annika: Yeah, absolutely. So for some boats, the fee of the repair is already included included in the boat price.
John Neal: Yeah, and same with the Elan that I use in Scotland. I talked with the owner about that because that had been a charter boat in Croatia. For And he said, oh yeah, everything has been re glassed below the waterline.
It’s, it’s been, it, and he said it’s much stiffer now than it was originally. So once that has been done, if it’s done properly, so the survey is just incredibly critical for these type of boats. More critical than with a boat like a Najad or a Malo.
Annika: Well, one topic we always talk about when you are on the show is offshore insurance. And I know our listeners are very excited to hear about the topic because it is a bit of a hurdle. So are there any other trends or tips in the marine insurance world that cruisers should be aware of, uh, especially for any long term offshore adventures?
John Neal: Right, well, I just recently, about three months ago, asked my underwriters and brokers that I work with around the world that question. And the takeaways were that Florida is now out of reach.
Many of the underwriters will not insure in Florida any time of year, period. Used to be they had exclusion periods or exclusion to name storms, or you had to have a plan and an agreement with a boatyard to have your boat pulled, if there was a hurricane forecast. And now most of the major insurers will not touch Florida at all. Um, Caribbean is also very, very difficult to get insurance. It is possible, but it becomes more expensive every year. Open ended, long range insurance policies are no longer heard of. The get around, so most of the underwriters worldwide want to see three years of prior boat ownership. In a boat within 12 feet of the size that you want to insure. That’s a deal breaker for a lot of cruisers, a lot of people, because they haven’t owned a boat before, or haven’t owned a boat that was within 12 feet. So I have a agent that I work with in South Carolina for a long time, in Charleston. And Hugo used to work for Lloyd’s of London, in London, and he used to work on mega yachts, and so he’s, and he’s a boat owner and a cruiser. He’s a really bright guy, and so he’s come up with a workaround. He says this almost always works. You go to the insurance agent, and the agent presents to the underwriter the fact that you will agree to 40 or more hours of instruction on your boat, or the boat that you’ve purchased, with a sign off from a licensed Coast Guard captain, sailing instructor. And he says, that gets around the hurdle almost all the time.
it’s actually a really good idea. Because you’re going to be a lot safer in your own boat if you’ve had intense focused instruction on it. So many cruisers are self taught. And they’ve taught themselves. I see this on my sail training expeditions. They’ve never had any, or had very little, maybe just ASA 101, 102. They’ve had very little instruction, especially in navigation. And they’re dangerous. They’re a danger to themselves. They’re a danger to other people. They’re a danger in the marina, when they come docking, you’re, uh, watching out that they don’t ram into you. And so the focused instruction on your own boat is just brilliant. And I’ve come up with a group of instructors around the world people like Andy and Lisa Fraley in Annapolis. They go all around the world. I’ve got them prepping people to do the, Uh, Oyster, Round the World Rally, training them.
They’ll actually go with people on ocean passages on their first passage. The insurance companies love this because those people that have done a passage with a trained instructor on board, they’re going to be a good risk. They’re never going to, you’re not going to read about them in cruising world, piling up in the rocks. So yeah, the biggest takeaway for insurance is training, getting training on the boat that you’re going to use.
Annika: That’s, That’s, a really that’s a really good tip.
And you have dedicated decades of your career to advising people who are looking to buy a boat or a refit a boat, that they should gain the skills before they jump in with both feet. And why is this gaining the skills important now, maybe even more than more than before?
John Neal: Well, it’s important from a financial point of view, because I was just on a boat, Bestevaer Dutch built, aluminum, high quality, high latitude boat, and its previous owner has owned it for a year, spent 150, 000 on it, and then decided he didn’t actually want to go cruising. Wow, the owner before did the same thing. And so it just makes so much sense for people to, to get their feet wet in reality before they go out and plunk down a bundle of their life savings. And so more than ever, hands on training at sea, not just once a week, not just a one week deal, but out on the ocean. Real life training, like what I’m doing in Scotland this summer. Like what Julie and Gio are doing. Like what a handful of people around the world are offering. It just makes a lot of sense because inevitably, if I have people who are consultation clients of mine, and are planning on going long distance cruising, if I can get them to do a training passage first, they say, wow, I’m so glad we didn’t buy a boat because our perception of what would make a safe and comfortable cruising home for us has just changed radically after we’ve been on the sea.
Things that we thought were really important, like a spacious galley, we now learn can be dangerous at sea. And so, getting experience before you purchase is just really, really valuable for your safety and for your pocketbook.
Annika: Yes, especially the second one. Yes, the preparation will save you some money in the long term and probably save you from a lot of dicey situations as well. as well.
John Neal: And it saves you time. And it gives you knowledge. And so the, I don’t follow any blogs at all. I don’t have a time or interest in that. But every once in a while I get a little snippet from someone on Facebook or Instagram, and I I’ve heard there’s some young people out there who have spent 2,3,4, 5 years rebuilding a piece of crap boat, and they’re finally out cruising and everything is breaking the rudders breaking. And this is like, boy, you guys really, you just spent a chunk of change and a chunk of your life in really uncomfortable position. Grinding fiberglass, rebuilding a hopeless boat. And so making smart decisions, educating yourself so you make a smart decision. And so you use your time wisely. You know, I started this when I was 21 years old. I had very little money. I paid 12, 000, 12, 500 for my 27 foot boat. I had a great adventure on it, but I didn’t spend much time working on it at all.
It was, it was sturdy. But in retrospect, now I’m going to be 72 here pretty soon. And so I have a different view of life and a different view of cruising and the people that I work with who are over 50, uh, they often, the older we get, the more we realize that life is infinite. I mean, it’s, it’s finite!
It’s not infinite and that we need to make good use. If we want to enjoy cruising, the way we’re going to do that is by buying the right boat. And so we don’t have to spend two, three or four years rebuilding. So we can be out enjoying nature and meeting people and enjoying new cultures instead. So that’s, that’s the takeaway I have.
Make good decisions. Educate yourself.
Annika: Now you said you’ve been at this since you’ve been 21 years old. What is next for Mahina Offshore Services?
John Neal: Well, this is the end of the line for sail training. We just completed the final New Zealand expeditions, we have six expeditions in the Scottish Isles up to the Orkney, out to the Outer Hebrides, St. Kilda, the wildest islands, Fair Isle in Scotland this summer, and that’s it. No more sail training after that.
I’ll continue to be advising people as I’ve done for 49 years. The boat purchase consultation service will go for another, Oh, another eight years at least till I’m 80. Why not? Because I love it. Uh, but now I have more time and that’s really fun.
So in the last,, two summers I’ve gone sailing in Finland, Estonia, and we just went sailing in Crete, new places that I’d never planned to cruise to. And I really enjoy visiting boat yards and boat builders worldwide.
And so my plan is over the next eight years to So, just keep increasing my knowledge of boatyards and boat services worldwide, chartering in those places,, more time skiing, camping, hiking, cycling, less time working. So it’s real exciting. You know, it’s wonderful to have a boat and to be cruising and for 50 years this has been fabulous, but now I’m looking at returning to Patagonia and Antarctica without a yacht. I lectured on cruise ships at Cape Horn, but now I’d like to go to Antarctica and take my partner there and not have to worry about an iceberg coming in and grounding on top of the anchor, preventing us from departing and, uh, learn from scientists. And so I’m just looking at doing different things and excited about the next phase.
Annika: Yeah, It’s and you have left an incredible legacy and I know your sail training expeditions will be sorely missed. Absolutely. You’ve had such a profound impact on so many cruisers and you’ve helped them build confidence and gain the skills to pursue their dreams.
But I’m glad to hear that we’ll still have your other, services available and helping to find boats and I’m sure we’ll see you at the Annapolis Boat Shows, too, right?
too right
John Neal: Oh yeah, as long as I can, I’ll be doing Annapolis and Seattle, just those two shows. And I’ve also set up two couples ex students to doing their own training programs.
So, Julie and Gio, that you’ve interviewed, and also Ken and Renee, who have a big 51 foot high performance catamaran, and they are called Koru Sailing Expeditions. And they’re going to be doing expeditions worldwide. They’re doing Haida Gwaii this summer, and they are dive instructors as well as sailing instructors. And so for people who are interested in catamaran sailing, and so I’ll be continuing to mentor and help . So, those two couples and, and referring people to them.
Annika: Exactly. Perfect. Well, John, thank you again so much for taking the time to be on the podcast and sharing all this wisdom and latest trends and everything we should be aware of.
John Neal: Thanks and congratulations, Annika for restarting this because, uh, I’ve heard from people worldwide that they really valued what you were providing and missed it. And so we’re all delighted. I’m looking forward to listening to this season’s podcasts.
That brings us to the end of this episode with John Neill. if you’re in the process of choosing a boat or refining your cruising plans, John’s insights are really valuable, and you can find more of his resources at mahina. com. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to leave a rating or a review podcast platform.
It’s a simple way to support the show, and it helps others discover the podcast too. Plus, I always love hearing your thoughts about the podcast or future guest ideas and so on. So please do get in touch and thank you for listening. I’ll see you in the next episode. Bye for now.